How to Use Podcasts to Raise Capital and Boost Your Real Estate Business

Patrick (00:22)
Hello and welcome to the active commercial real estate investing show brought to you by the one and only school of commercial real estate investing. Today, I’m joined with Trevor Oldham. Trevor is the founder and CEO of Podcasting You, which he founded in 2017 in response to the necessity for outstanding real estate investors to have the opportunity to spread their message on high ranking podcasts. So far, Podcasting You has worked with over 400 real estate professionals and booked over 6 ,500 interviews. As an investor, Trevor invests in triple net, multifamily, and self -storage deals in addition to investing in mortgage debts. Trevor, welcome to the show.

Trevor Oldham (01:00)
Thank you, Patrick. Super excited to be here and excited to chat with you today.

Patrick (01:03)
Yeah, well, to get started, let’s first dive into the two things that you bring together in Podcasting You, which is real estate investing and then podcasting itself as a way to grow your funds, your syndications and your real estate business at large. So can you give our audience just a background in terms of how you got into real estate investing in the first place?

Trevor Oldham (01:30)
Yeah, most certainly. So I would say the way that I entered real estate was just through my podcasting company and I was working with a business coach. I mean, he said to me, why don’t you invest in real estate? And I thought to myself, well, I don’t know. I never really thought about investing in real estate. I, at that time, I thought that I didn’t want to go into be more in the active role when I was thinking of like single family rentals and different things like that. I felt as though I’d be too passive as a landlord. I feel like people could walk over me. I just, I’d be too friendly. So I realized I didn’t want to be a landlord.

And then that’s where it took me sort of went down this rabbit hole of just going on like Bigger Pockets and just learning more about the passive side of investing. And that’s really what took me. I was like, “Oh, like I can invest in a deal where I give you $50 ,000 and then you go out and you buy a $12 million apartment complex” where on my own, if I was trying to go out and buy that $12 million apartment complex, you know, what do you need? You know, 3 million down plus whatever closing costs and additional fees and different things like that.

I realized by going through syndications, I can invest in these deals. And then the other just sent me down a whole rabbit hole of just talking to different sponsors and learning all the different asset classes. It’s like, you almost don’t even know what’s possible. Once you, I initially thought like, okay, it’s just multifamily. And then I learned about like triple net leases and then self storage. Then, I mean, you could go through, I mean, you have like your mobile home parks, you have your life insurance settlement companies, which is pretty crazy. Then you can even go further like oil and gas and just learning about all the different investments. It really just started from my company and really just pushing myself outside my comfort zone because I would be a non -accredited investor. And for those listening, basically what that means is I can’t invest in a 506 C deal and by not being able to invest in a 506 C deal, I can’t be marketed to. So I have to be the one reaching out to the sponsors and starting that conversation with them. They can’t be the ones doing it to me. It’s just per SEC guidelines. So I had to do a ton of networking to get in contact with these sponsors, talk to a lot of different sponsors. And I think that gave me a good feel of the different types of investments that I wanted to go with. And then also the types of sponsors that I wanted to go with. But yeah, I think more than anything, it was being pushed by my coach. And then also realizing that I had been investing like 401k, IRA, and I can’t touch that till 59 and a half. And I realized I enjoy the podcasting business, but I don’t know if I want to be doing this for another 30 years.

So what’s the way I can start generating some cashflow now that could potentially replace my income. So it was just a, it was a kind of a mixture of all those different things.

Patrick (04:05)
Yeah. And so you mentioned that you already had your podcasting business established prior to investing in real estate. How did you first get into podcasting?

Trevor Oldham (04:15)
Yeah, so it was back in 2015. I was actually running a different company at the time and I thought it would just be cool to go out and start a podcast because we had grown like a really, it was basically like a motivational based company where it’s now a little bit more popular now, but you can go on Instagram and you would see like motivational quotes. So we had that and we grew to like a hundred thousand Instagram followers within like six months, like 400 ,000 Facebook followers, very easy to scale the brand.

I was more worried if someone comes along and like Instagram just shuts us down or Facebook shuts us down, then we lose a lot of our traffic. What’s the traffic that we could own? And that would be going through the podcast. Cause I knew on the podcast, there’s nothing to take down. It wouldn’t be like, we weren’t talking about anything bad or anything like that. So I thought I wanted to go out there and start this podcast just to build another medium. And we’re just interviewing like investors and entrepreneurs, just different business folks and did that for about two years.

And I really just got like burnt out of that company, just put in a lot of effort, a lot of time. And I found that people like motivational based content. I mean, we were getting like 10 ,000 likes a post, but when it came to like selling courses and eBooks, people, I know they really wouldn’t buy it as much. So it was like just burning both ends. So I figured I needed to break and I just started freelancing out. So I use a platform called Upwork and I was finding people to edit their podcasts, to write a recap of their episode, which could be considered show notes. And then I came across a turnkey real estate investor out of LA that wanted to get booked on podcasts. I had never done that before. I thought to myself, well, I booked all these guests on my show. I think at the time with my podcast, I had about 60 or so episodes. I wish I would have just kept doing it, but now it’s, you know, I stopped doing the podcast back then when I, when I stopped running the company, but long story short, started working with her and then just started finding other clients to work with. And I was, early on I was working with any client that I could, whether they were a real estate investor, whether they were a lawyer, politician, health coach. I mean, you, you name it. I was working with them. But after about two or three years of doing that, I was like, I’m just burning like again, burning myself hot here. What’s like one niche that I could go all in on that I really like to work with. And then that just became, I love working with real estate investors. I’d always had an interest investing in real estate. I’d gone out and got my real estate license thinking that that would help me invest in real estate that doesn’t really, it doesn’t really help too much unless I wanted to save on commissions or, or certain things like that. So I really liked the real estate niche. I loved working with real estate clients. So I just made the decision, I think probably back in 2019 now, Hey, let’s just only work with folks in the real estate space. And then obviously within the real estate space, there’s tons of niches within the space. Like I know we were talking about before all the different asset classes. So I found it just been that, that good sweet spot for me and you know, over time I’ve built up the team. I think the first year was just me and then I brought on like the first employee, year two, and then, you know, sort of just started to scale, you know, on a small scale. And I think now we’re up to like seven or eight team members that we have on our team. But yeah, honestly, I never really expected it to be a business. You know, I didn’t go to school for PR or anything like that. That’s what we could be considered. Kind of just, hey, this is like my fourth business I’ve tried and it’s making money. Like why not just keep rolling with it?

And here we are seven years later.

Patrick (07:34)
Very exciting and a very fun journey. And I appreciate that, you know, you were persistent about something that you were passionate about and found a way to monetize it. And then you still continued to pivot until you found what was really working and then just started to scale that. So kudos to you for going down that path and persevering through that path, because I know that it is not a straightforward one. It’s not a clear one and it’s not an easy one. And I’m sure there were lots of, moments of self doubt along the way, but glad that it’s all worked out for you and that things are thriving at the moment. So with Podcasting You in present day, you’re focusing on real estate investors and supporting investors. And you do two sides of it, right? So you support investors in creating their own podcasts and then you support them in being booked as, featured guests on others, correct? Can you talk through, both sides of that and maybe the benefits of each and why commercial investors should be taking podcasts seriously.

Trevor Oldham (08:38)
Yeah, most certainly. So I would say that I have found that the number one reason that folks start a podcast more often than not in a real estate space is just to build that brand awareness, to go out there and build that credibility. And it could be twofold. If you’re going out there and going on podcasts, you could have a media section on your website where a potential investor can come to you and you can think about it on your about page on your site. Maybe it’s a paragraph, maybe it’s two paragraphs. It sounds really nice. It goes over your experience, but now all of a sudden, you have that media section on your page where someone could come through and that they could listen to your interviews that you’ve done. There’s that aspect of it. And then on the flip side, if you’re a podcaster, someone could listen to the podcast episodes that you’ve done. And that also helps to build credibility with your audience. When it comes to each of them, I typically recommend that depending on your experience, which one you should do first. So if you’re someone that’s more experienced, then it might make sense for you to go out there and be a guest on people’s podcasts first. Where if you’re someone that’s a little bit newer to this space, maybe it’s someone that’s only been doing this a year or two, and it might make more sense for them to start their own podcast, where it’s gonna be harder because there’s a lot of competition out there. So for you to go out there and to go on these podcasts if you don’t have a ton of experience, it’s just gonna be a little bit trickier to get yourself booked. Where when I was starting that company, again that I mentioned in 2015, I wasn’t making a whole lot of money in the company and I just started that podcast. I was just bootstrapping everything on my own. And I mean, there’s a number of services that you can go out there now to edit your podcasts and different things like that. It really doesn’t have to be that expensive. And I found that it just allowed me to figure out what I wanted to do with the company by just interviewing these different individuals. And for someone that’s going out there and starting a podcast, all of a sudden you’re networking with these different individuals that are coming on your podcast.

And I almost used it like a mastermind per se, where instead of me reaching out to someone and saying, “Hey, can I pick your brain for 30 minutes?” I would say, “Hey, do you want to come on as a guest on my podcast?” And not that everyone would say yes, but there are quite a few people that would say yes. And then I would get to talk to them for 30 minutes for an hour. And I found that that was just very beneficial for me, just from a learning curve standpoint. So you can imagine if you’re a commercial real estate investor and you’ve been doing it a year or two, and now all of a sudden you’re interviewing people that have been doing it five years, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. Think about all the knowledge that those individuals have where you’re learning from them. So that’s where I like that aspect of having my own podcast where sometimes when you’re a podcast guest, like you’re up to the questions that the podcast host is going to be asking you where when you have your own podcast, you can ask whatever questions you want of the guest. And I think I’ve never had a guest be like, no, I’m not going to answer that question. I mean, I remember talking like real estate podcasts and mine was a business podcast. So it’s not like we’re asking like totally out there questions or anything like that. But at the end of the day, I think it really just comes down to the time that you have where if you’re hosting a podcast, it could be, you know, there’s a lot more that goes into it. It’s booking the guests on the show. Even if you have a service like ours that does that, but you still got to prep for the show. You still got to like know who you’re going to be talking to on the interview. And then you have like 30 minutes, 16 minute interview that you have to conduct. And it’s just like, there’s more to it being a host. But if you have that time availability, then that makes sense. If you’re, Hey, I’m strapped on time. I can only do 30 minutes a week, an hour a week. Then it may make sense for you to be more of that podcast guest when it comes to your experience. So I don’t think there’s a right answer. I found at least for me that starting a podcast when I didn’t have,

Patrick (11:57)
Haha

Trevor Oldham (12:23)
a lot of success or when I was building my company, that made more sense. And then as I started to get that success, then it made sense for me to go on podcasts. And I honestly prefer doing both of them. But again, I don’t want anyone to be like overwhelmed thinking that they have to have both because I find that establishing like that one foundation. Okay. I’m going to go on five podcasts a month. So I’m going to do one podcast a week.

Okay, I did that for six months. Now I’m going to launch my podcast. Now I have sort of a schedule built out of when I’m going to go on shows. Now I’m going to build out the schedule for when I’m going to have guests on my show. So I think you just got to plan it because it’s a lot of work being a guest, but it’s even more work being a host. So you just got to make sure you’re, you’re prepared and you’re ready for all that that takes.

Patrick (13:05)
Yeah, yeah. Thanks for providing that overview. And as you mentioned, you know, one of the primary benefits of both appearing on other people’s podcasts or hosting your own is kind of this expert positioning of yourself in the space to some degree, paired with the exposure that it can bring you. Right. And I think that one of the really strong advantages of podcasts in general, is this ability to kind of break distance and connect with other people who you may not even know, right? Like people can tune into an episode that you appeared on or an episode that you recorded from across the country at a time where you’re sleeping or doing something else. And they, to a degree, start to build a relationship with you. And so I think as an investor and as a GP in commercial deals, by building those types of distant relationships almost on autopilot because these episodes are evergreen. Once they’re published, they can be accessible 24 seven, you know, for however many years in the future the show hosts it. And so I think building those relationships over time and kind of doing that network on autopilot really comes back to be beneficial down the road as you’re starting to look for investors for a deal or whatever the case is. So, can you speak a little bit about maybe some success stories that you’ve personally seen with investors who have either started their own podcasts or have made an effort to appear on podcasts?

Trevor Oldham (14:42)
Yeah, most certainly. So it’s like one story comes to mind on the podcast guesting side where we work with this individual out of Kansas City. And I think he went on 20 or so podcasts and I think he raised at least a million bucks from it. He didn’t give us the exact number other than he said he got 25 new investors out of it and has been a typical minimum of 50 K. So, you know, just doing a simple math, 20 times 50 K, not even doing the 25. So, that was really cool success story. I mean, for the most part, we want to go after like those accredited investor folks. And for those listening your accredited investor. So those are the folks that are going to be investing in your 506C deals. The 506C deals. Those are probably the most readily available deals that are out there. So then you gotta work your way back. Okay. Who’s your accredited investors? You figure, okay, it’s gotta be someone that either A) has an income of $200 ,000 or B) has a joint income between husband and wife for $300 ,000. They’re typically going to be your doctors, your lawyers, dentists, sales professionals, potentially your business owners as well. And I’m just trying to place them on those types of podcasts. So just being selective with the shows that you’re going on, cause there’s a lot of different podcasts that are out there and some are more just general helpful in real estate, where it makes sense if you’re like a real estate coach to go on and you’re like a service provider or something along those lines. But if you’re looking to raise capital, it might make sense to more so go on those podcasts. And that’s just something we had to learn as our company, as we started to learn, you know, really why people are going on the podcast. Like, why are we getting all these real estate investor clients? Oh, because they want to raise capital. Why do they want to raise capital? Because they want, you know, to go out and buy more deals or to fund their current deals, you know, and given them that little marketing injection. But yeah, I think that was the, our biggest success story.

Patrick (16:25)
Yeah, that’s amazing and you know, great return on time for sure. If each of those episodes was 30 minutes to an hour to then do a handful of them and have a new set of investors with a million dollars cash, you can go and deploy on a deal. That’s fantastic. Thank you for sharing that. Let’s dive in to each one of these avenues a little bit more. So let’s say that I’m a GP and I don’t have time or I’m not interested in jumping over all the hurdles of starting my own show, but I am interested in leveraging podcasts by appearing on other people’s shows. What’s kind of the roadmap you recommend for individuals to start doing that?

Trevor Oldham (17:11)
Yeah, so I recommend typically the way they like to look at it is like, hey, how many podcasts have you been on before? So if you haven’t been on too many podcasts or if you’ve been on a few, it really depends, you know, what their experience is at the end of the day. And if you’ve been on, let’s say five to 10 podcasts, so you start to get an understanding of the flow, you understand what’s going on. Maybe you have your story down at that point. You’ve you just talked about your story, your bio, you’ve gone over it a couple of times. Now you’re not going to fumble when you’re going through it.

So when those individuals, okay, it’s like that makes sense. Let’s start to go out there and get you on, you would say like a medium podcast, your larger podcasts. You can think of just shows that have been around for like a year or longer for someone that is a little bit newer. So the podcasting space, maybe they haven’t been on a show before. I typically just recommend starting off or shows that are a little bit newer just that way you can just get more practice on those shows. And not to say like we work with clients that are very successful, but I find that more so in the real estate space and pretty much on any other niche that I had worked with ever is that they’re very smart. They know what they’re doing, but they’re also very introverted and can be hard for them to hop on a podcast. And I find that’s like the biggest reason people don’t do these podcasts interviews is they’re almost like they don’t know what to expect and they’re nervous. So it’s like, okay, like how do you get over that?

Well, the only way to really do that is to go on podcasts, but like we don’t want to burn going on like a larger podcast that has a really good following and it’s been around for a while. And maybe it’s one of the more, you know, it’s like a brand name podcast just cause it’s been around. Like let’s just say like Joe Fairless I know he just had his Best Ever conference a little while ago. So he’s like, you know, he’d be a name in the industry that people are familiar with just given how long he’s been in his podcast has been around, I don’t know, for a very long time.

Now like it wouldn’t make sense if you’ve never been on a podcast to go on like his podcast because it’s a really good opportunity. And if you don’t know, what you’re going to be talking about, you’re very nervous. Then it’s just not going to work out. And I can speak from experience. I remember I just started to go back on podcasts again and I went on, I think it was like Whitney Sewell’s podcast, the real estate syndication show. That’s like a perfect fit for like my target client and I just like felt like I just didn’t do a good job because I’d only, I’d only gone on like two or three podcasts before talking about the power of podcasting within the real estate space. I was like, man, you know, like I wish I would’ve just gone on a couple more of the smaller shows just to get more, a little bit more practice and refine my story and then gone on his show. So I didn’t like burn that bridge because I can’t be like, “Hey, can I go back on your show?” a month after I went on, I think I don’t think I did a good enough job. You know, maybe six months later I could ask him. So that’s sort of what I would do is I would just start with your experience level, figure out how many shows have you been on and then just really work it out from there.

And then you really just have to put together like a nice one sheet. And for those listening who might not know what that is, you can think about it. It’s almost like a PDF or a media kit where you, in a nutshell, you could put in your bio, you could put in questions you want the host to ask you, topics you want the host to ask you, or just, you know, recommendations you can give the host. You can include your links to your social media accounts and you can include links to your previous podcast appearances, different things like that. So you just want to include that in a one sheet. Like on our team, we have a designer that just does that for our clients. But I mean, you could probably go out there and hire someone if you want to go the cheaper route, just Fiverr, Upwork. I mean, there’s any number of designers that could do it.

And then from there, it’s just putting together your podcast pitch. So this is what you’re going to be sending off to the podcast host. And it’s more or less like why you’d be a fit for the show, why you like their podcast, a little bit more about your background, and then you include your one sheet. And then at that point, it’s just researching shows. So there’s two different, or I guess there’s three different databases you could use. There’s one called ListenNotes, there’s one called Rephonic, and then you just have your regular old iTunes.

My preference is Rephonic. I find that that platform typically works the best. Listen Notes has been around a while, I’ve used both of them. They’re probably gonna run you about 100, 150 bucks a month each to use, but they’re very good when it comes to researching shows. You can research your newer shows, there’s just a lot of filters on them. I could go on iTunes and type in like real estate investing podcasts. And it’s going to show me shows that haven’t had an episode produced in two years. And it’s just going to be like, it’s not going to be enjoyable to do that where I can go on Rephonic and search for real estate podcasts that have five to 10 episodes, five to 15 episodes that are the newer podcasts that, you know, have a daily show, a weekly show, a monthly show. So there’s a lot of features and tools that you can use on those two platforms. So I recommend doing that. And then really just building out your podcast list from them and then reaching out to the shows and yeah, just really going, going from there and seeing how the feedback is. I mean, hopefully if you do a good enough job, you’ll start to hear back from these podcast hosts that want to have you on. And I mean, if you don’t, you got to go back through and, and maybe recreate that pitch, maybe recreate the one sheet a little bit more, but yeah, I mean, you’ll get the feedback from the podcast host. So no one’s responding to you. Then you know, you got to tweak something, but hopefully you’ll at least get yourself a few bookings if you go that route.

Patrick (22:21)
Thanks for sharing all that. I feel like that’s a great foundational plan that’s pretty straightforward to follow. Definitely requires a lot of work, but it’s not overly complicated, which I think is one of the things that can be a barrier for many people. So just to quickly recap, you know, you find a set schedule for yourself in terms of what your goal is and how many shows you want to appear on over what period of time you create a pitch for yourself effectively in terms of here’s my experience, here’s my background, here’s my bio, here are some questions to ask me, here are some good topics to talk about with me. You compile all of that into a designed one page PDF that you can send off to show hosts. You then search for shows that would be a good fit for what you’re trying to do and begin reaching out to those people with your one-sheeter which again is a very straightforward and streamlined plan that I really appreciate. Another thing that you mentioned that I think is really wise is reaching out to smaller and newer shows first. I think that there’s this misconception in a lot of ways of, if I’m gonna be on a podcast, it has to be the biggest and best podcast right out the gate, right? Otherwise it’s not worth my time. And I disagree with that because I think to your point, like if you haven’t, done this much before, it’s really good to get practice. And the more practice you get, the better, just kind of all around. And I think a lot of the newer shows are more eager to have people on than some of the bigger shows. So I think it’s a win -win situation in the sense of like, if a newer show is focused on your niche and you have some expertise in that niche, they’re going to be interested in having you on more or less and vice versa.

Trevor Oldham (24:09)
Mm -hmm.

Patrick (24:11)
you are going to have the opportunity then to work out some of your own kinks as a guest and nail down your talking points and the things that you want to hit in an interview to then build your practice and move forward with larger shows. So I just think that’s a really intelligent place to start. Smaller shows definitely don’t have like a bad rap per se. It’s just that they’re smaller than some of the big ones.

So now that we’ve we’ve talked about what people can do from the perspective of being a guest on a show, what would you say on the flip side of that? Let’s say like someone has done a few shows as a guest and is really enjoying it and sees the value in doing it and doesn’t feel like it’s overly complicated in terms of the technical requirements and all that. What would you recommend a GP do when they want to start their own show?

Trevor Oldham (25:04)
Yeah, most certainly. So I think the first and foremost is gotta come up with some sort of a plan. And I was thinking about even our podcasting company where I wanted to go out and just launch a podcast, just talking to different GPs and talking to different passive investors on how they market their real estate business. But I had known from starting a podcast that it’s a, it’s a lot of work that goes into it.

What I had done is I wanted to go through and do all the prep work on the back end. So I wanted to basically like start to formulate a plan out of everything that I needed that was gonna be going into the podcast. And was it gonna be me? Was it gonna be someone on our team doing it? And what I mean by that is I knew I was gonna be the one hosting the show. I would be the one putting together like a guest list of people I want to interview, but I’m like, okay, I’m going to delegate that to someone on my team. Okay. How do I make sure I never run out of guests? Like what systems of processes have to be put in place for that? So I never run out of guests. So that was like the first step that I started to plan for and I’m like, okay, I want to do five interviews and just, I wanted to have 10 interviews, but I wanted to launch with five interviews. That was just sorta my plan, how I wanted to do it. I’m like, okay, starting interviews in January, if I want 10 interviews, how many do I want to do per week?

Okay, maybe I want to do no more than four interviews per week. I think I have like a time slot set up on like Tuesdays and Thursdays, just, you know, one hour each just because I find if I do any more than that, I’m just going to, you know, it’s a lot of work that goes into a podcast interview. So I don’t want to burn myself out. So like no more than four interviews a week. Okay. Now if I do four interviews over January and February, when can I launch and March at some point? So started to figure that out. I’m like, okay, I have that down. Okay. Now, what do I want the title of the podcast to be? What do I want the description of the show to be? Figuring that out, hiring for the cover art of the show. And these are just all like the backend legwork they have to do when starting the show. And then from there I went through and I was like, okay, who’s going to be editing the podcast? So, you know, have the team to put together on that. Someone from our team that was going to be helping out with that. It’s like, okay, who’s going to be helping out with the social media aspect of it like once the interview has gone live who’s gonna create the social media clips? Who’s gonna be sending it off to like the guest saying like hey your interview has gone live here the social media clips. Here’s where they go. Who’s gonna be scheduling them out on our social media account? So I just I walked through Pretty much every scenario of what I wanted my podcast to look like so the big things are you know? How often am I gonna be conducting the interviews? When’s the podcast gonna be going live? Who’s gonna edit the podcast? Who’s going to put the podcast up on our website? Who’s going to create the social media clips? And there’s companies out there that do this, that all the, you know, it’s a lot, but I found that like we do it all at our company. So I was trying to figure out like, it’s almost like putting our systems and processes to the test to figure out like who’s going to be doing what. Because I find the reason podcasts fail is people just have this expectation that they’re very easy, that you can just sit down, you can record the interview. And that’s that, but there’s no sort of game plan behind that where you want to make sure like, okay, you want to, you want to be consistent with it. So how can you be consistent with it? Maybe you have episodes pre -recorded that maybe go out a few weeks after you have the interview with the individual because you have this backlog that way in case you’re taking a vacation or something comes up in your personal life and you just can’t record an interview that week or for a month, the people are still going to be able to listen to your show. So, now you’re taking, you know, that’s all like the backend legwork. Now as you’re coming in as a GP, you could think about, okay, who do I want to have as a guest on my podcast or do I just want to do solo podcast episodes where maybe I’m just going through helpful content. And by what I mean by helpful content is maybe you’re talking about, one week you’re talking about a particular asset class. The next week you’re talking about a particular market. Maybe you’re talking about the state of the market and commercial real estate as a whole, you know, that could be like a solo podcast that you do and you don’t have guests, but if you’re having guests on your show, who are the guests that you want? Do you just want anyone in the commercial real estate space? Do you want folks that are just LPs coming on and talk about their experience investing in commercial real estate? Do you want to make sure of both? And then as you start to go through, you start to formulate your podcast. And then from there, it’s just pretty much launching the podcast. It’s conducting the interviews and then just being consistent.

But yeah, it was just really more or less putting those systems and processes upfront where now I get to do the enjoyable part of, I just record the interviews.

Patrick (29:31)
Right. And once you have your systems down and you’ve had guests on and you’re publishing shows, I feel like that is that’s part one. And there’s a lot that you just mentioned that goes into part one. Then part two is what you do with that media afterwards, because I think that’s where the magic of podcasting really happens, especially, you know, as we were talking about earlier, with this kind of 24 seven networking on autopilot. What type of strategies or playbook do you typically like to implement and have you found success with your clients in terms of repurposing that media or sharing that media and really getting it out there to grow the podcast’s listenership and exposure?

Trevor Oldham (30:20)
Yeah, most certainly. So I find the medium that works the best we found happens to be LinkedIn. We find that that’s where your high net worth investors, your professionals, you know, that’s really more where they gravitate towards. So you could take a say a 30 minute interview and you could create five to seven different clips for it. And you can go out there and have to put it out there on your LinkedIn, maybe do one piece of content every single day. And then that’s going to sort of, allow you to build that credibility, people to find out more about you. Then they start to find out about your podcast and then they start checking out that podcast. So I definitely recommend, I mean, you’ve spent all this time on the interview. Why not go that extra step and hire someone or have, you know, put out the social media content. It’s like on our end, when we were starting to build this out, I went through a lot of different folks. I went through like on Upwork and Fiverr just trying to find folks that would edit a 30 minute interview and create five to seven clips for us. Honestly, it was like a nightmare trying to find good social media. you’d have folks where you have the captions in and they just wouldn’t be correct. There’d be misspellings. It just like, there was one where, where I’m the host of the show, right? And I have the guest on the show and it’s just like, the clips are only me asking the questions, but none of the responses from the guests. So it would just be like, you know, Patrick, know, you’re going through asking me a question and that’s the whole clip. There’s no more to it. So different things like that. So we actually use a tool now it’s called Kapwing K a P W I N G and it’s super inexpensive. It’s like 24 bucks a month and we just throw the interviews up there and it’ll automatically create like snippets.

It creates 10 different clips about a minute each from pulled from the interview. And then from there we’ll go into each clip. Maybe we have to make the clip a little longer. Maybe we have to make it a little bit shorter, but it takes a lot of time off of us editing it. And I just have someone on my team now and go through it. Cause I was just so frustrated going through different social media editors where again, it wasn’t that good. And that tool I find works great.

And yeah, I find that again, you’ve spent the 30 minutes on the interview. Why not go that extra step and create the podcast and create these social media clips? Cause I find for me, LinkedIn has been the best source when it comes to generating new clients and leads for my company over the last year or so. And I found that by doing interviews and putting them out there on LinkedIn, by putting other content on LinkedIn like that really helped, but after a while you kind of like, it’s hard to think of seven posts to write every week when you’re sitting down on your computer. So if I could just take one interview that I did and create the social media clips from it and then use that, like, it’s a lot, it’s a lot easier.

Patrick (33:02)
Exactly. And just to tie in something that you mentioned earlier, which is that when you started your first podcast, you mentioned that you were using it as an opportunity to network and learn yourself. And I think that that’s one of the great things about being your own podcast host is that you’re inevitably going to ask questions that yes, they benefit your audience for the sake of benefiting your audience, but they’re also going to benefit you. Because inevitably you’re going to have questions about this thing that you’re pursuing, which is likely what your show is about. And you are going to be asking those types of questions to the guest. And I feel like that’s always a great filter, because if it’s helpful to you as the host, then there’s somebody else out in the world where that same response or answer information is also going to be beneficial and helpful for. And so I feel like by kind of structuring some of your questions and your interview flow that way. You then have these chunks of information that are really beneficial. And to your point, then you just slice them up and reshare them throughout the course of a week or a month or a year, whatever the case is. And you start to get some of that evergreen content going and working on your social media channels, which then over time will build the audience, build your brand, build your reputation within the space, et cetera. So, certainly a great play there in terms of media publication for the purposes of raising capital as a GP in commercial real estate. So thank you very much for sharing that. I know we’re coming up here on time and we’ve talked a lot about how GPs can leverage podcasts either as being a guest on different podcasts or launching their own, and some very actionable concrete steps that they can take to go either direction. I’m curious now, you are an LP in a number of commercial deals. For those listening who aren’t familiar, LP stands for limited partner, which means you’re an investor in commercial deals, but you’re not the one doing all of the active work behind it. And I’m curious, I imagine that you have met some of the GPs, the general partners of your deals, via podcasting. What are some of the things you look for when you’re vetting a general partner to invest with? And I think this would be really great insight and information for the general partners listening so that as they appear on podcasts or start their own, they have a little bit of a framework and some insight in terms of what they should or shouldn’t be doing as a speaker.

Trevor Oldham (35:45)
Yeah, more certainly. I would say more so than them from the podcasting space, but just thinking of the companies and the folks that I invested with for your newer GPs, one just being on time to the initial intro call. I’ve had folks where I think I talked to this gentleman about, I don’t know, probably about a month ago and just to give you some long story short.

It was only a 15 minute call. So just quick get to know you and he showed up like 10 minutes late to the call. So we had five minutes left and then that was, that was the call. So how much can I really learn about your company? There’s a ton of different sponsors and operators out there. Like if you’re going to be late to the call. So like that’s like the first red flag that I find in different GPs outside of that. I find that folks where I come on and that all they talk about is like their experience and they don’t ask about me as an LP, like what I’m looking to invest in because maybe like what you’re offering isn’t exactly what I’m looking for in this moment, but I like to be on your investor list so things like that where there’s been times where I’m on a 30 minute call and all they do is they tell me all about their experience I mean I’ve gotten down to like people where they graduated college and their degrees and I’m like that’s nice to know but that’s not gonna pertain to me as a passive investor. I want to learn about your company but I also want to have you like like does what I’m looking for makes sense?

Let’s say like right now I’m looking for like a cash flowing opportunity where if you’re a Class C property and you’re going to do a heavy value add deal, there’s not a ton of cashflow in that. But if you’re more your Class A property, maybe there’s going to be more cashflow in that because there’s not a lot of value add to the property. It’s more, just more cashflow play less of an equity play. So maybe like you do a mixture of both. Maybe you buy both Class A and Class C properties, you know, maybe depending on what I’m looking for in that point in time.

I would say outside of that, like the markets I’m looking to invest in. I know before we hopped on where I’ve talked to someone for like 30 minutes and then they tell me, we only work in California. Like, well, I don’t want to invest in California. You know, I want to invest in more red states, like your Texas, your Georgia, your Florida, your Arkansas, West Virginia, Ohio, Indiana. Those are the states that I like. I would prefer not to invest in California. I love visiting California. You know, it’s a great state. Just prefer not to invest there. Similar with me living in New York, enjoy living in New York.

We prefer not to invest in the state. So just different things like that. Just having an understanding of like where I’m coming from on the LP side, like what I’m looking for in the different markets to make sure aligns with what you’re doing. Outside of that, I’d say over performing the returns that you’re going to be stating. So like it’s easy for someone to come in and say, Hey, we got a 40 % IRR in ’21 where everyone is, you know, having a lot of success back in ’21, but like, can you withstand and have that same IRR? No, I mean, to give you some context, some guy gave it was like, Hey, we give Christmas bonuses to all our investors. I was like, well, that like sounds too good to be true. So like, that’s like, you know, maybe you do that. Maybe you don’t. Another one, it was a 200, it was like a carbon, carbon depreciation recapture, 200 % depreciation on it. So like for that, that sounded too good to be true. And that one actually ended up being a Ponzi scheme.

So like that, that sponsor definitely was not, was definitely not a good sponsor. So that sounded too good to be true. So at least for me, like if you’re promising, like, Hey, we can knock it out of the ballpark. Well, if you’re saying like, Hey, we’re doing a 40 % IRR and it’s just a simple value add. I’m like, are you going to be hitting those numbers? Because I know a 40 % IRR, like that’s a heavy value. There’s a lot of risk that comes into it. And obviously you’re going to get a better return, but on a simple value add deal, maybe I’m getting a 15 to 22 % IRR where I’m taking a little bit more risk. So I find that the sponsors, they overstate how much return I’m going to be getting from them. So I’d rather the sponsor would be more truthful for me.

And then outside of that, it’s a communication style. Typically after I talk to a sponsor, I’ll email them over a question and depending on how fast they get back to me or what their response is.

Usually I like, I’m just looking for like three to five business days. I’m not looking to, you know, someone to be like, answer me within an hour, but there’s been sponsors where I ask him a question about their deal and they get back to me like two or three weeks later. And I think to myself, well, I haven’t even invested in your deal. I haven’t even gave you my 50 K like, what’s it going to be like once I invest with you, are you going to, you know, just not be have good communication. So just having good communication as a GP, that’s very important. And then the last thing I would say, that at least I personally do would be like, I don’t know if it’s about lying, but I’ll go to sponsors and when I’m ready to invest with one of them, I’ll be like, Hey, I’m going to be running a background check on you. Is there anything that I should be aware of? And some of them will be like, like you might see this, you know, I might’ve had a tax lien on my property cause I was going through a divorce Like, okay, like that makes sense. Why you got that, that tax lien. But there’s only been one instance where the guy like, should I be aware of anything on your background check? no, you know, gotta come back clean. He had like a bankruptcy like five years ago. It’s like, well that’s that’s a pretty big life changing event. I don’t think that you would forget that. I’d rather you like tell me like what happened. I mean, everyone goes through hardships. You know, maybe you just, maybe you made a couple of bad deals and you learned from it because now you’re five years further along and you’re like, “Hey, this is what I learned from it. This is what I’m doing differently.” Now I’d rather you be truthful for me. Again, that’s only come up one time where I’ve had someone just like forget something major in their life. But at least for a lot of the passive investors that I talked to, a lot of them do the same, similar due diligence on these deals. So it’s not just me doing that’s actually where I learned the background trick was from this talking to different passive investors. But yeah, I’m really just looking for like, does my, what I’m looking for match with like what you, what you do, you know, how’s your communication style? Do you get back in a timely manner? You know, how are your returns? Are you just inflating your returns? Just different things like that at the end of the day, like as an LP, I never expect to invest 50 K and lose it. But I think that’s just a lot of responsibility on the GP side to just be a good GP. Cause I mean, once I wire you the money, I mean, it’s almost like we’re in a marriage for you know, three, five, seven years at that point.

Patrick (41:53)
There’s a lot of value in everything that you just mentioned. And one of the things that I’m hearing loud and clear is that if you are a GP or an aspiring GP and you’re going to go through the effort of finding your own deals, funding your own deals, operating your own deals, being on podcasts to raise capital, potentially starting your own podcast to raise capital, all of that is important and necessary. But at the end of the day, it all boils down to still doing the small things well. So if you go through all this effort of being on a bunch of podcasts to get exposure to raise capital and then limited partners and accredited investors are reaching out to you saying, “Hey, I heard you on this podcast. I want to invest with you. What deals do you have?” If you’re not following up with them in a timely manner, if you’re not being truthful with them, if you’re not being realistic with them. These are all very simple, fundamental things, but you could blow all of the work that you did with the podcast exposure if you’re not doubling down and doing those fundamental things well. So I think hearing your perspective as an LP is incredibly valuable because you, what you just mentioned are the target audience and the ideal persona that a lot of GPs should be thinking about when they go on podcasts or when they start their own podcast. Because if they’re not, then who are they talking to? Right. They’re trying to attract you. Therefore, these are some things they should keep in mind and also follow through with after the fact when the show is published and people start reaching out. So thank you so much for sharing that. And I know we’re at time here, so we’ll wrap it up. But thank you very much for coming on, sharing your wisdom about the whole podcasting space and the benefits that it can have all around for GPs. Where can people connect with you and learn more about you if they’re interested in doing business with you or having you on their show?

Trevor Oldham (44:02)
Yeah, most certainly. So they can check out our website, podcastingyou .com. So just podcastingyou.com. From there, you can just book a discovery call with our team. Or if you want to reach out to me directly, you can just find me on LinkedIn. It’s just going to be my name, Trevor Oldham. Just shoot me a connection request. Always happy to chat there and share my personal calendar link from there as well. But yeah, those are really the two spots between our website and LinkedIn.

Patrick (44:26)
Wonderful. Well, Trevor, thank you again so much for coming on today and look forward to talking more with you in the future.

Trevor Oldham (44:34)
Thank you.